Hero or Villain? Archetypes, Astrology & the Hidden Patterns Shaping Your Life | Cosmic Conversations

What if your life story isn’t random… but part of an ancient archetypal pattern that has been repeating through history for thousands of years?

In this episode of Cosmic Conversations, we explore the powerful intersection of astrology, mythology, tarot, and psychology with spiritual teacher and oracle creator Letao Wang.

Together, we dive deep into how archetypes such as heroes, villains, kings, rebels, and mystics are not just mythological stories—but living psychological patterns that shape your choices, relationships, and destiny.

This conversation reveals how ancient stories and historical figures mirror your own inner world, and how becoming aware of your archetype can completely shift your perspective on life.

🌌 In this episode, we explore:

•  How astrology connects to mythology and archetypes 
•  Why heroes and villains reflect inner psychological patterns 
•  The repeating nature of archetypes throughout human history 
•  Shadow work and self-awareness through storytelling 
•  How to recognise your own soul role in this lifetime 
•  The balance between destiny, free will, and consciousness 

We also discuss Letao’s upcoming oracle deck:
 Legends, Heroes and Villains Oracle — a transformational tool designed to help you work with archetypes for healing, insight, and spiritual growth.

This episode is for anyone on a path of spiritual awakening, self-discovery, shadow work, astrology, mythology, or personal transformation.

Once you understand the archetype you are playing… you can never see your life the same way again.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Artemis is all about your goal because she's an archer and she has a target, she knows where to shoot her arrow, and that's what her she's really good at doing in myth. Usually, when Artemis shows up in the reading as a general energy guiding our clients, this is telling you to fix your eyes on your prey. Usually, when Artemis has her eyes on a prey, she does not miss it and she will get it done. So, this usually shows someone who's very determined, someone who has a very clear mind about I want this and I will go get this. And Artemis usually tells them to keep embracing this very strong uh energy within them.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Now, before we dive into today's episode, I'd like to invite you to subscribe to this channel and click the bell for future notifications so that you never miss one of my podcast episodes of either the numerology show or cosmic conversations, or indeed some of my transmissions, which will help to activate the next layer of your spiritual awakening. I'm the author of the Star Seed Ascension Guide and the Cosmic Family Oracle cards, both designed to help you to reconnect to your higher self and remember who you truly are. If you want to dive deeper, we have an online membership portal called the Oversol Codex Collective, where you can join a like-minded group of star seeds from all across the planet as you delve into courses in numerology, colour therapy, and cosmic consciousness as well. You can also support this channel by becoming a member either as a Tall Spark or a Codex Keeper. If you're feeling the call to join us together in person, then we also host Consciousness Expanding Retreats in Perth, where you can really start to experience this incredibly immersive work within community environment. Once again, your support really helps this channel to grow. So thank you for joining this team of galactic light workers from all across the planet, helping to expand consciousness and bring light into the darkness. So welcome, welcome, welcome back to Cosmic Conversations. I'm your host, Haydn Crawford, and today we're honoured to welcome La Tao Wang, a professional astrologist, spiritual counsellor, tarot specialist, and award-winning author whose work is featured in the New York Post, Bustle, BBC Vice, Axius, and a whole lot more as well. Now, Lateo actually brings a unique perspective to spiritual growth by connecting us with the stories of history's greatest heroes, legends, and even villains. Through these narratives, he explores how human nature, decision making, and spiritual evolution are reflected in myth, history, and zodiac archetypes. On today's episode, we'll delve into how these timeless stories can offer guidance to our own choices, serve as tools of self-discovery, and help us transform past lessons into aligned action for the future. We'll also be discussing his exciting new release, The Legends, Heroes and Villains Oracle, coming out this May, a deck designed to bring wisdom of these powerful archetypes into your daily life. So let's welcome La Tao Wang to the show. Welcome, La Tao. It's lovely to have you with me. Thank you so much, Hayden.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yes, awesome to be here.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Ah. Well, listen, I was wondering if you could share straight away, you know, what inspired you to combine astrology, tarot, and mythology in your spiritual practice.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Well, this has a lot to do with my early days training, actually, uh as an astrologist, because um it's very interesting that we just talked about, you know, where you are, and you told me that you're in Australia. Uh, in my early 20s, I uh I studied in Australia, actually. I went to um Macor University uh in Sydney, and um, you know, during that period of time, I encountered my first spiritual teacher. Uh, and uh he was a very famous fortune teller back then in Sydney. So I became his apprentice his apprentice, um, and I was learning astrology and tarot with him, but his approach was very, very different. Um usually, you know, if you go to those very established traditional astrology schools, um, they will teach you things, you know, related to, for example, you know, the planet, the house system, um, you know, the uh the aspect, right, and the archetypes and things like that, uh, in a rather bookish way, I would say. But uh, my spiritual teacher, my first spiritual teacher, was rather a mythologist. And so instead of using the uh traditional approach, he was pretty much asking me to read uh mythology, he was asking me to read Iliad and the Odyssey, he was asking me to read um Agnes, and so all those you know uh stories would give us a very interesting um view right about what the planet's about. So, for example, if you are looking at Venus on someone's birth chart, instead of memorizing what Venus means and you know how that uh works with Jupiter or Saturn, my spirit teacher would say, Well, you you have read stories about Venus in myth, so you tell me what it means on someone's chart. And so my early days training um about Western astrology was very much intertwined with uh storytelling and with mythology. So for me, it's kind of interesting. I never uh I never thought those two things were separated anyway from the very beginning, but only at a later stage when people asked me how to connect them, and I realized, oh, that's actually not the common approach. Um but for me from the first day, I thought mythology was astrology, and I mean and I thought us astrology can only survive with the background of mythology anyway.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

How interesting. I love hearing that because I think you know, if you were to ask me what I know about Venus, I would be like, it's a planet of love, you know, and and so it already brings the you know an emotional response to you know into the forefront of your mind. And then, you know, you start um imagining a beautiful, dreamy sort of female figure, you know, with long flowing blonde hair wearing a pink outfit, don't you? So is that what you mean? You you were able to sort of almost um be almost forming an illustration of what a planet may look like as an archetype.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

100%. And it's very funny that you said um there's something common, right, between our oracle creations, because you like to put a face there, right? And I'm the same. I like things to be relatable, uh, and I'm sure that you feel the same way. Um, for example, when when someone has Venus in their first house uh on their natal chart, and then um to me, it's a bit like okay, now this person is carrying the Venus face or the beauty, right? With the traits, the personal traits in their first house. And the first house represents who they are, uh, how they present themselves to the outside world, even their physical appearance. So naturally, you know, it's even it's easy to understand why Venus in the first house people are usually very graceful and elegant and they behave a little bit Venus-ish, if you know what I mean. And if Venus in someone's seventh house in astrology, which is their house of marriage commitment, then they tend to choose a partner who is very Venus-like, man or woman. Uh it's a little bit like that. So 100%, yeah, it's a little bit like bringing that character of Venus or character of that deity into uh into the chart, and we're seeing how that is being um uh manifested right in that person's actual life.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah, that's brilliant. Oh, I love that. So, were there any pivotal moments in your life then that drew you to explore historical heroes and legends as spiritual teachers?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

So uh actually, uh my first oracle that my first two oracle decks, which was were both published in 2024, they were all mythology-based, right? So they were the mythic heroes and also uh celestial deities. And mythology was you know way like we're talking about thousands of years ago. And uh, of course, you know, a lot of us love myths, and you know, I'm a big probably um you know, I would say the biggest fan um of mythology among the people that I know uh in my vicinity. Um but well I was the more I read mythology, the more I feel okay, so we are learning things where we are um gaining uh wisdom from those stories, which happened thousands of years ago, where some people might say no, they were just myths, right? They didn't happen, but it doesn't matter. But at the end of the day, myth is history, and history is myth. And the reason why we think they are mythical is because they are too far-fetched, right? Because they were made thousands of years ago. But what if something just happened like 200 years ago? Are they still myths? Well, maybe they are still mythical, but we have more physical evidence to prove that that happened, right? What about something where somebody lived 100 years ago? Uh maybe someone still knows them, right? And so then I have this realization about a myth does not need to be that far-fetched. Even something happened 50 years ago or 30 years ago, we can still see that as myth, and we can still learn things from them. And so that's the initial inspiration uh for me to create this Oracle deck, um, Legends, Heroes, and Villains Oracle. And this deck of cards contains 36 uh influential people throughout history. Now, of course, there are way more, right? But um, for me, uh one of the um how do I say this? Uh one of my biggest motivations to create this deck is to introduce some of the most influential uh historical figures in Asia to the Western audience. And so when you look at this deck, you will find um very interesting uh characters from, for example, China, from Japan, uh from Singapore, uh, from India. And some of them are quite famous, for example, Mahatma Gandhi, right? Even Western students and you know, people will learn about his story, but there are also some of them who are less known in the Western society, but who contributed greatly to our society, and that's one of the uh the motivations that I have right when I created this deck.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Interesting. So do they include uh the ascended masters as well?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Well, a lot, yeah, correct. Yeah. Well, at least I think, and of course, when you talk about you know the influential uh teachers and um scientists, uh artists, right, in our society, I'm sure everybody has their own favorite. But um for me, uh those people deserve to be known much more. Um, and that's why I chose them uh to introduce through this deck.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, no, that's that's wonderful. It's interesting, it's an interesting subject. I was listening to a uh podcast recently with Sasha Stone, and uh in his discussion, it was talking with somebody about like a lot of these um so-called you know mythical uh figures in our history. And he mentioned people like even Thomas Edison, for example. Yeah, and he was saying how you know how like that people are even starting to question whether these people were even real, you know, that they that they weren't just made up, like they were almost planted into the human zeit, or you know, into the zeitgeist to uh you know to kind of uh perpetuate this um fake narrative of of human evolution. Do you believe that certain archetypes have been like almost planted? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Um you know, about 10, was it 10 years ago? Yeah, roughly 10 years ago, yeah, that was the first time I visited Greece. Oh, because I you know I've studied Greek mythology all those years, right? And I really wanted to see what Greece looks like. And when I was in Greece, uh I was remember I was on a day trip uh with a taxi driver, yeah, and he was driving me to Delphi, um, you know, the Oracle, famous oracle. And in the car, I asked him that question. I said, You grew up in this culture, you guys study Greek mythology since kindergarten, right? Um, do you actually believe, for example, Hercules actually existed? Or do you believe that the king of Athens, Tethias, actually, you know, he he went, you know, during his uh you know youth uh times, did he actually uh um killed a Minotaur, right? Became a hero and came back to Athens and built a country. And the uh uh the local driver, yes, you remember his name, his name is George. And he said, actually, you know what we do, we do believe they existed, but it was just a very exaggerated version of them that we are telling now. He said, probably there was a guy who was like Hercules, who was extremely strong, who had to go through the so-called 12 labors, right? And he had to toil in order to um find his enlightenment. And someone maybe had very, very similar life experience like Hercules, but it does not mean that he actually uh you know strangled um uh the Ninian lion uh or something like that. Of course, we we painted it with a little bit imaginal, uh imaginative color back to his life story. But he said, I do believe that those people actually existed. So I think again, back to your question, not just mythology in Greece, but all over the world, right? I think in Australia you have the aboriginal myth and the stories. I think every culture would create um those stories based on some truthful human experience, but in order for them to be more impressive and more teachable, uh, and we added a little bit of color to it.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

So you feel that that's the purpose that maybe got exaggerated was to make them more relatable, um, or or was it to make them almost superhuman, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Um, both, I think. Um uh let's say when you say superhuman, right? I think it's more sort of like we want to make someone more godlike, right? So you see, if someone is more godlike, then we tend to worship them or uh we tend to put them on the pedestal, right? And despite what the intention behind it, um, as long as to me, right, as long as it it is playing a um uh positive role in our personal development, I personally do not mind.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah, it's interesting because you know there's this this whole notion now, you know, the that's sweeping the world about stepping into our sovereignty. And of course, you know, these archetypes were almost worshipped in a way that they, you know, they were almost disempowering the individual, you know, at a human level. Um obviously, yeah, I think that a lot of these mythical figures, you know, served a purpose at their time, but I feel like many of them now, as we're remembering that we are limitless beings, are starting to um you know fade into the distance. I suppose a bit like the ascended masters, a lot of the ascended masters, like Lord Lanto, for example, or um some of the lesser well-known ones, like um Lord uh Maitreya or um Babaji or Gananda and and those, they they kind of fade, you know, into the distance after you know after a period of time because you know humanity is evolving at such a rapid rate. Yeah. Do you um you know can you see that happening? You know, when you when when you discuss um heroes or mythical figures, do you find that a lot of people just have a blatant unawareness of of who they are? And um do they do they find them relatable?

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Uh I don't believe there's a universal uh you know thing there, right, for us to feel to to be relatable to. I find myth is a very, very personal thing. And it's kind of interesting because I talked about this with um with someone else recently. I said um I think eventually we have to come back to the purpose of reading myth and using myths for our personal growth. What's the purpose of that? And of course we can use that in many, many different ways, but at least in the during the initial stage of my spiritual studies, for me it was more sort of like a guidance for my own growth and uh personal journey. And I think as long as myth or the uh um the mythical figures are serving that purpose for us, whether they are more relatable in terms of our human experience, or they're so omnipotent, um, that is so far-fetched. As long as they give us a sense of hope, I think they have served their purpose, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, I love that. I I I I totally agree with that because I'm, you know, I'm an archetype fanatic myself, and I I almost use um certain archetypes, you know, like the um the archangels or the ascended masters or you know, some of the galactics, um, for almost like they're almost like fragments of my own soul remembrance, and each one then it offers a different form of empowerment or a remembrance of my my limitless potential. So in a way, they reflect back something about yourself that maybe has been forgotten over time, which is only a positive thing. So I love the fact that you know it it they helped you or help you to remain really hopeful. And then of course, you know, you've got you know, mythology um civilizations such as Atlantis, uh Lemuria. Yeah. And what you know, a lot of the time, you know, people are now starting to realize that you know these aren't mythical civilizations at all. These are, you know, the these are our actual human evolution. Do you do you feature any of the galactics within your with any of within any of your decks and archetypes?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Uh mainly these days, uh, so the current two Oracle decks are mainly focusing on Greek and Roman myth. Uh, and because that's just my expertise and uh what I've been uh focusing on um for the past several years. Uh however, uh I have got actually a um a new uh tarot book um in the pipeline, and it's supposed to come out next year, 2027. And in that book, um I can't really you know say the name of the book yet because you know the publisher told me not to um say it yet, but uh it's about the world mythology uh so uh and using world mythology to learn terrot. And so uh in that book, um, you will see not just the uh um the Roman, the Greek myth, but the mythology from, for example, as an example, yeah, uh from UK, right? King Arthur, right, and Camelot. And that's also something that I I truly love. Um, you know, the magician Merlin and the King Arthur, um Queenavir, right? Those stories. Uh, and also we're gonna find Egyptian, Egyptian myth, Nordic myth, and also Chinese myth. Yeah. So these days I'm trying to widen my myself more, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, I love that. You know, when you're talking about Merlin, you're speaking my language, and and it's interesting because you know, for many, they believe that Merlin was a later incarnation of Saint Germain. Do you find that, you know, when you're studying the um the different archetypes, that they are um they they can almost be reincarnated versions of different forms of themselves? It could be, I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah, and not just Murney, right? I mean, like what you said, is sometimes you when you read a lot of uh different stories and you realize, hmm, are these actually connected? Uh-huh that's not really recognized, you know, universally, but there is always an interpretation in our own mind, and thinking this could be this. So absolutely, I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, it's it's fascinating, isn't it? Because a lot of people will say, well, um, you know, Yeshua was a later incarnation of Melchizedek, you know, as uh as an ascended master. So I think you'd probably find those commonalities with you know the the the different mythical figures that you're exploring. And it's interesting that your focus is around Greek and Roman mythology. Um, so I I I love um you know those uh particular um civilizations you know and like the sutures of Helena and um you know they even you know sort of um Zeus and Poseidon and you know Neptune and all of all of the the the those figures that are associated with Atlantis are are fascinating. I had a regression actually and in that regression I I I actually um found out that I was a uh a mythical uh figure or not a very well known one uh I was uh one of the Poseidon's first born set of twins uh uh a a figure known as um Urmulus uh he was the twin of Atlas are you familiar with uh that particular uh figure in not much not much but I know what you're talking about yeah yeah so it was interesting to sort of explore that and you know it felt like quite a big responsibility to have to have realized or remembered that you know this was part of my soul's journey and you know the lessons that were passed down through you know through that that incarnation were were fascinating. So I so when um you know if we look at mythology and human nature a bit more closely how can studying the lives of historical heroes and villains provide insight into our own choices today do you think?

SPEAKER_00 23:27

You know I think we actually already do that since uh since childhood but we're just not aware of us doing that. You know even with children right they watch superhero movies uh superman whatever that is that's already us applying um we're using right the so-called archetypes of a human superman or I don't know aquaman or spider-man and the reason why children love them is because there's something the children want to embrace they want to embrace certain archetypes of those superheroes and subconsciously I think we are doing that our whole life we're just not really putting you know a word to that and even when we grow up um we always have someone that we look up to maybe that's our teacher maybe that's our father or that's a a really good friend who's so good at doing something and we wish we could be them and I think that's it's a little bit like the myth right whether that's a mystic figure on paper or someone actually living in your environment and we're always so trying to embrace something that we admire and we don't have and I think it's the same theory basically yeah it's almost like we want to emulate people that we respect and admire. 100% yeah do you do you find that you know that there are people that want to emulate villains as well uh yes well there are you know the when it comes again you know children are playing together there are certain kids they just want to be the villain you know yeah so uh I think they're also the reason why they want to be the villain is not really because they want to be the villain it's because there are also certain traits that the villain carries that is rather charismatic. See here's the thing the reason why a hero is a hero is because there is a villain so if the villain is not charismatic enough the hero cannot be really heroic. Yeah and I think this is sort of like a very interesting dynamic there right so and that explains why sometimes we also think wow that's a villain but that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Of course you know it goes back to duality doesn't it that there's always got to be the black and the white the good and the bad the right and the wrong and it's the it's the narrative that flows throughout you know our planet our planetary history and interstellar as well yeah so for what purpose do you believe that you know there is the need to have both it's kind of actually a very interesting concept in astrology I thank you for raising that you know one of the uh uh things that my spirit teacher said to me he said for example let's say um you want to let's say you are an Aries right and you love being an Aries and you love all the traits of Aries courageous independent you know all these kind of you know fiery stuff and my teacher said you can't truly be an Aries unless you know how to be in Libra which is actually the sign opposing Aries on the chart and he also said if you truly want to be a Capricorn you have to learn how to be a cancer first which is also the opposite sign right they're the opposite signs on the on the astrological chart so the reason why he said that was because Aries was independence but Libra rules relationship and so these two signs they complement each other and that's also is related to the two different houses right Aries is associated with the first house and Libra is associated with the seventh house.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

The first house is me and the seventh house is us or the relationship. So that's the reason why people say that you have to understand who you are first before you find the right relationship. You can't just go into a relationship without truly truly knowing who you are first. And that's why these two things are very complementary right and so the heroes and villains are the same I think um in history right they seem like they are extremely you know um opposite right each other and they have nothing in common but at the end of the day there there is the common ground between them and that's what makes it fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

It's interesting as you were talking about that there and you're talking about Aries and Libra um you know the marriage partners aren't they um in in astrology so um and I've I'm a Libra I'm always very attracted to Aries people um even though they're the baby of the zodiac but it's if I look at that through the lens of colour um being a colour therapist the Libra um is associated with the colour green because it's in the it's the seventh house so it sits right in the middle of the spectrum uh the colour spectrum as well as in the zodiac so green is that sort of that that harmony so it's why it's represented by the scales. Yeah but Aries is red. And of course red and green in colour therapy are complementary colours they're opposites on the colour wheel.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

So what we say in colour therapy is that the antidote to a red related issue like anger is green um the complementary which is space you know so setting healthy boundaries getting space from whatever it is that's causing you the anger so in a way it seems to apply this whole principle across lots of different modalities doesn't it oh I love it actually yeah and I think it at the end of the day right is especially in uh personal personal counseling sessions when I do with the clients it's all about understanding what's on the opposite side and here's the thing again it's very funny I had this conversation with a friend who was trying to do a hair implant the other day and uh and suddenly you know when he was telling me about this you know he was having this consultation with a doctor and I suddenly said I said you know it's very funny that we never see the back of our head and that's why when you do a hair implant right they take a picture of of the your the back of your head because they're trying to get the graft right out of your this part and plant it somewhere else and for the first time he told me he saw the back of his head and you know and I said that's interesting because we never see that side we can only see what's in front of us and so this duality thing is a little bit like you're seeing the other side of things you're seeing the other side of the of your head and you realize that wow okay now I'm getting gaining a different perspective on this so I truly believe that when when Aries if Aries truly wants to be a successful Aries they have to look at the back of Aries which is Libra and they look at that side they understand a lot more not just for the sake of Libra their partner but the first for the sake of their own personal growth.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Interesting isn't it yeah so the only yeah the only time you really ever get to see the back of your head is when you go to the hairdresser and they put the mirror at the back of your head and they're are you happy with your hair but I always think uh no I'm not but you know what can you do about it yeah but at least I've got a big ball patch.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

And those are the things you know we have nothing to compare to it's because you know because you know like what you said the barber is showing you the mirror right and then you'd be like okay but what did it look before? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Okay that's fine right I remember I've never said no you know when a barber was showing me the because I have nothing to compare to I'm like okay that's fine no yeah exactly who knows what it was like before and as long as I'm not bald I don't really care you know that's fine so okay so in what ways do these stories then do you think uh how do they reflect patterns in human nature and spiritual evolution? Oh that's a big question how do I answer that can you give me something more concrete yeah so you know if we're talking about mythology and human nature yeah um you know in what ways do you feel like you know some of these these stories of these heroes and villains and um you know legends how do they reflect patterns in you know actual human nature and ah okay so for example yeah when we look at um any uh musical figure uh they they might have a lot of different stories there but usually there's one or two that is remembered forever uh or when you talk when you talk about that person when you mention his or her name that one story will show up uh and I think that's the so-called pattern there so for example uh one of my favorite uh Greek mythology figure whom I also um uh featured in uh Oracle of the mythic heroes which is my first publication uh is Orpheus the legendary musician with descending into the underworld to save his dead wife Eurydice and you know when you talk about Orpheus of course we all think of that story and there are other stories about Orpheus for example he joined the Argonauts with Jason right and he his music was able to conquer you know the scene the magical sing of the sirens but nobody talks about that right everybody thinks of you know Orpheus as this loving husband figure right who tried to save Uritus from Hades and when we're looking at that one story I think that reveals the most important the so-called pattern that we're looking for within us and for for example for Orpheus the fact that he wasn't able to save Uridus was because of his insecurity was because of his fear um and was because of his nature of not being able to trust Hades' words and because Hades is a god of the underworld and it actually to me it symbolizes our subconscious realm so on the surface for example it is Orpheus not trusting someone not trusting Hades but deep down it's about him not trusting his own subconscious his own uh um fighting his own fear let's put it this way and not being able to to uh to beat his own fear of of losing Uratus and I think when we talk about those patterns right and that one story and what it reveals about that person is the pattern that we're looking for in us and also um in other people yeah that's a really good answer actually that the Tao so you know it's almost like goes back to that fear of abandonment doesn't it um you know or or betrayal I guess you know so a lot of these really deep rooted human fears that we have um yeah are are kind of what you're saying are reflected within these characters um within you know the these different um these different narratives these these different timelines and heroes so okay so I've got a question for you then right I woke up um after a dream uh about three weeks ago and I had as clear as day in my head um Icarus um don't fly too close to the sun okay and I was like oh my like I don't even remember thinking about Icarus since I was a kid and I remember the story was like he was he he he he actually had a he made wings out of like wax or something wax yeah yeah yeah and then he flew too close to them the the wax melted and then he fell to the he fell to the earth didn't he so I was just wondering like what what must be going playing out in my subconscious mind for Icarus to appear and you know be very clear you know in my memory the next day.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Okay so uh actually in the Oracle of the Mystery Mythic Hero I featured Icarus as well actually I have the deck in front of me I'll show you the card Icarus um also again yeah you know when I was writing the guidebook for this Oracle deck I believe that you know there's absolutely more than one keyword more than one lesson um than what I put on the card because they're so multidimensional right it's very difficult to say that um mythical figure is that but in my oracle deck I um associated uh the story of Icarus with the keyword hubris and we can look at actually this from different perspectives let me see oh here we go this is the kind of Icarus right the it's floating from the sky okay and I associate his energy Icarus with the second decade of Sagittarius so to me Icarus was how do I describe this he didn't listen to his father Deatlas right because before they flew out of the tower his father Deatlas warned him and said you know don't fly too high right just follow me right trust me just do this but he but Icarus didn't listen well at the beginning he actually listened he thought okay that's fine but later when he really gained freedom right when he really flew out of the tower the more he flew the more he felt we're liberated or he was kind of like losing control. And his father was calling him behind and saying that come back come back right it's too dangerous and he said no I'm fine fine you know I know what I'm doing and he kept flying high and eventually the wax uh melted and so to me why the reason why I associate this card with the the the uh uh second decade of Sagittarius is because one of the weakness of Sagittarius is self-righteousness Sagittarius is a sign of teaching it's a philosopher it's a teacher so in a good way you know Sagittarius people love wisdom love learning knowledge you know exploration adventure all these kind of things because they want to get to the top of the mountain right and find the so-called hidden treasure on the top of the mountain so that they become the philosopher or they become the the knowledge uh uh uh person right the teacher the professor but the weakness of um uh sanitary is that sometimes they focus on that so much to pursue the so-called truth or the knowledge that they forget about the daily communication uh so one of the typical examples I can give is a little bit like let's say someone who is doing degree after degree you know bachelor and then master second master third master and then PhD but they never talk to people they never gain the so-called the street smart knowledge from people so they might be able to talk about one subject forever but they're losing the connection with the people around them and nobody really understands what they're talking about. And the more they do that the more they feel isolated in their own cubicle let's put it this way and so Icarus energy was a little bit like that because Icarus was pursuing the so-called sun he felt that that's the the destination right that's what gives him the sense of liberation and that's why he ignored the so-called communication from his father he flew you know higher and higher and that's why he fell so this card basically the the lesson that I wanted to convey to my audience is that remember that sometimes we think we know certain things but actually we don't and just let other people contribute their knowledge to us and it it will be much easier or it will be much better if we we can let them right contribute that to us through daily communication rather than us trying to dig that out right from a um a a thick dictionary I might as well kill myself now it's very it it's so interesting that I was just having a conversation with my husband last night and we were saying um you know because of of the work that I do you know I'm very much you know always talking about you know you know galactic stuff and of course my my my friends and family they like they zone out and start talking they're like uh all we can hear is and so you know as over time like I my friendship group has shrunk you know um so you know I think I am losing the ability to be able to you know just have a regular conversation you know like small talk so I think your interpretation of Icarus and uh this that narrative is definitely applicable so no wonder I woke up you know yeah I'm also learning that lesson these days actually yeah because you know as a counselor one of the most important things is actually to listen right but once you get really get into the deep part of the uh the counseling there's always a part of me trying to just to get to the point with the client because I don't want to because I don't know maybe this is also also something that I need to work on. Yeah I'm very afraid of a client like within let's say one hour session I'm very afraid of the client feeling like I'm not gaining enough from you or you know I'm I'm spending all this money but you know I'm talking I'm talking talking talking but as a therapist you are not really telling me much. And so sometimes it's important to balance how much you want the clients to have a channel to release their emotion and talk about their experience and when do you need to right just to get in and then say okay now let me lead you right from here.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

And so yeah it's a very intricate balance I think it really is and I I totally identify with what you're saying there you know because like I'm a listener I must admit like so but no one ever asks me any questions about me.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

So I'm very good at listening but then I'm like well hang on a minute you know what I mean what about me and so you end up just you know you end up going into playing that role but as a counselor you know it it is part of your responsibility isn't it to facilitate a space for the external other um yeah so and I think for clients it's case by case right some clients they love to talk they want to be the the the talker in your certain client they don't talk much and then we have to be uh flexible okay so since you're not talking much and I have to open the door for you first right so yeah very interesting yeah it'd be a bit orkies wouldn't it if both both parties weren't say anything yeah I had a one client like that recently yeah she was just like I'm you know like you know I don't know what to say I'm like okay okay take it slow but we have to do something about this right why are you here um yeah interesting maybe she was starstruck uh who knows but um all right then so so if we look at astrology and myth then how how do you use zodiac mythology in your work to guide people towards self-discovery and align decision making how do you do that uh uh again so I usually would associate um zodic signs and planets to mythological figures again I'll connect them together uh for example Mars as a planet uh is always associated with Aries of course in the mythology and Aries is a zodic sign in a story that is ruled by Mars and so Aries naturally carries a lot of the um the uh traits of um of Mars but in uh oracle of the mythic heroes I separated them into two different uh layers so if the planet is the deity is the god then the Aries then the actual Zodic sign is our human is our heroes so for example in Oracle of the mythic heroes I associated the Sodic sign Ares with uh Cetheus with um uh also uh Achilles uh these two heroes and also um uh Bellerophon uh the three different decades of Ares and the three keywords I uh gave to them is Tetheus is leadership uh Achides is courage or sorry is confidence and um for Bellerophon is impatience yeah so for me they are the two layers the planet are the gods and the signs are the they are the a human they are the uh what do you call them um uh yeah the human heroes and the the the heroines yeah yeah it's funny we we should be talking about Mars because like I in numerology I'm a a life path nine which Mars yeah yeah related

SPEAKER_01 44:00

The number uh Mars in the colour mirrors, which is red over orange, this beautiful combination here. So obviously it's the fire elemental. And um, you know, I I tend to uh relate to any of the more sort of uh um thoughtful, I guess, uh archetypes, you know, like the muscular figures, um, the dominant like alpha male sort of energy is is is a is a frequency or a vibration that I um particularly align with. And I noticed that you know a lot of your uh illustrations within some of your cards do depict, you know, a lot of these sort of almost demi-god-like figures, um, you know, which is you know, they're quite homoerotic in a way, you know. You know, do you find that the um the imagery uh was inspired um through uh the archetypes, or or was that something that you had a say in, or was it purely your illustrator who decided what the the imagery was going to look like?

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Oh, I had to, oh of course, yeah, we all have our own interpretation of what a hero would look like. Uh and naturally we are also influenced by the literature that we read in the past. Uh, for example, if you always seen Hercules looking like that, then naturally when you imagine what Hercules looks like, it will look like something like that. Well, maybe you see that in the movies, right? Or what you know Achilles would look like. Well, to be honest, I don't think Achilles would look like Brad Pitt, to be honest, even though that's what was in the movie. But uh yeah, so when I created this deck, I had very detailed description of those uh heroes and hearings for my artist. Uh and uh he did the the illustration. Uh and also uh one of my um in order for them to be more relatable, you know, when I was in a visit to Greece and also uh Rome in Italy, I went to a lot of museums and I really wanted to see how our um you know how they were sculptured right in the past. Um and because if they were presented that way by you know our artist 200, 300 years ago during the Renaissance time, then probably that's more relatable to us. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

And it's so interesting the way that we are moving more towards the divine feminine uh, you know, uh in our in our culture on this planet. Do you find that a lot of the archetypes or heroes um that you've depicted are male, or is there a is there an equal amount of of female and have has that evolved over a period of time to become more divine feminine?

SPEAKER_00 46:44

So the uh one of the things about Greek mythology is that you will realize there are not a lot of female heroines anyway. Um it's a very um masculine uh world in Greek mythology. I mean, there are goddesses, but if you're talking about human, right, um Atlanta probably was the only one. And she was even not even a very female character, anyway, even though she was a woman. She looks like a tomboy, actually. You know, in the story, she refused to marry. She was doing hunting with men every day, and uh, and she, you know, she would have a foot race with men, and if she wins, she will kill the man. So, you know, she was not really a very feminine uh archetype anyway. Um, however, we can actually see a lot of the feminine archetypes in the deities. Venus is one of them, also one of the typical things, uh uh feminine uh archetype is Hera, the wife of Zeus. Um, the other one was Demeter, where Ceres, the archetype of mother, uh the unconditionally loving divine mother. Uh, we can also see Persephone, right? Um, the innocent girl, the goddess of spring, uh abducted to the underworld as a victim. And so if we want to find those uh female archetypes and the so-called feminine archetypes, we can more but more in the deities rather than in the uh the heroes. Um and I also feel like there is always a trend in society. There are certain times when the society are leaning towards more feminine archetypes, and sometimes they will switch back. And this is about what we just talked about, right? Finding the the the the uh the middle point of the two extremes, right? Aries or Libra, right? But we sometimes we're just being bouncing back and forth, we're oscillating between these two forces. And if now, let's say what is popular is the feminine archetype, I guarantee you after a few years, the masculine archetypes will come back, and then a few years later, the feminine archetypes will come back again. So it's a bit like that, and I wouldn't worry.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yeah, it's so interesting because when we're talking about the deities, uh you know, were more there was more female uh deities as opposed to uh heroes. Yeah, um, I I guess you know, if we look at the the new wave of feminine energy on the planet right now, it's moving away from that that dominant sort of tomboy-ish female energy and into a much more soft feminine uh balance of love and power together, more like Isis, the Egyptian goddess who gave birth to um it's more that sort of frequency that seems to be um relatable to to most women who are stepping up into positions of leadership or becoming way showers, and it's a softening, isn't it, very much? So the deities almost carry the energy of softer feminine energy. Um so people so so people may be starting to relate more to deities um than you know the heroes and villains.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Well, I think there are certain things actually, this is one of the reasons why I love Greek ethology, because every single deity is has flaws. Actually, nobody is really perfect, right? And nobody is like, okay, this is what we want to become, because there's always a part of them that is ugly, and there's always a part of them that is admirable. Uh, like, for example, let's say, for example, you talk about Dimita, uh um, the goddess of agriculture, she's a divinely loving mother, right? And of course, for women who want to be mothers, um, they love Demita, right? She's nurturing, uh, she's loving, she's soft, she's um, you know, how do I say this? You know, she is the kind of kind of mother that we all want. But in the story when Persephone was abducted by Hades, she had a very, very difficult time acknowledging it. But Persephone was already at the age that she should get married, actually. You know, she was even her father, Zeus, said, let her get married, let her go with Hades. Hades will make, you know, will make her happy and you know make her the queen of the underworld. Don't worry. But Demeter couldn't let go, and that's why she stopped spring. And she said, if my daughter does not come back, everyone suffers. So we see this archetype in terms of, for example, a child needing to leave the home to start their own life, but the mother doesn't let go. The mother says, No, I'm no, no, you're staying at home, you're not moving out. Or the mother would say, I'm not accepting the fact that you don't need me anymore. Because you know, I've seen a lot of um clients who I'm counseling, you know, maybe they have been a full-time mother their whole life. So, but one day when a child needs to leave the home, go to university, or while the mother can't accept it, the mother has a very, very difficult time adjusting. And that's what Dimita's ugly side is, or let's say her weakness is. So I think any archetypes, when we look at them, it's about we have to look at them multidimensional. Okay, what do we want to embrace about them and also what part of them that we feel okay, but let's not do that.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Uh yeah, yeah, you're talking about the empty nesters, aren't you? They often yeah, they get very, very stuck, don't they? Yeah, um, because they don't know what to what their purpose is after the kids have fledged nests. So so okay, so that's interesting that I'm glad that even the deities have their flaws as well, uh, which is useful to know. So they're not they're not like these huge, great big perfect icons. They, you know, they are you know, they're almost relatable to the human experience.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Even Hera, right? Hera, the queen of the universe, right? She should be the most perfect icon there for all women, right? All female archetypes, but she was far away from it. She was jealousy, you know. I sorry, she was jealous. Um, you know, every time Zeus is talking to a different girl, she will be like, you know, I'm gonna kill her, you know. And that's her flaw, right? And and it's also very interesting in mythology. Uh, there's a very small um uh story about uh Hera, how she regains her balance, is that every year she would go go back to her mother's place, and in her mother's house there's a magical spring, and she would bathe herself in the spring and she would become a virgin again, and then she will go back to Zeus, and then she feels happy again. And so this small story about Hera regaining her virginity is about finding our purity. Oh, because of course, you know, the virginity is not really physical, you know, virginity is more talking about us going back to simplicity, going back to the state when we are not our brain, our mind is not being contaminated by fear, jealousy, you know, complicated thinking, you know, feeling always suspicious, you know, conquered by all the gossips around us, and we feel life is simple, life is pure again. And so Harold's lesson was a little bit like that. As the queen of the universe, you might think that she's got it, but every year she still needs to refresh herself so she can regains her own simplicity in life and she feels balanced and happy.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Well, I recently visited the Temple of Artemis in Turkey, yeah. And I actually brought a statue of Artemis home with me because I have a just a very strong soul memory that I've been uh to uh Artemis before, the Temple of Artemis, and and actually uh Ephesus. Could you tell me a little bit more about you know these uh specific archetypes and and um what the significance is so I can understand maybe why I was guided there. Uh by the way, I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

I visited Ephesus three years ago and Temple of Artemis. It was a great trip, and actually uh uh it was a very rushed trip, to be honest, because I was in uh in Greece actually. Uh I was on an island called Samos and I took a ferry from Samos to uh uh Kusadasy, and from there we get a bus, right? To uh we got a bus to uh uh to uh Temple of Artemis. Uh first of all, I want to show you Artemis from uh Oracle of the Celestial Deities. Here we are. Oh beautiful the moon. Yeah, the fearless Huntress, yeah. Actually, Artemis was the goddess of the moon. Um, but in the mythology, the moon is actually associated with three different um three different uh deities uh in Greek myth. Um and they usually represent the younger or the youthful version of the moon, which is a new moon, uh, and then the middle aged moon, which is the full moon, and then the old age of the moon, uh, which is the crescent moon, right, the waning moon, right before it goes back to new moon. And so Artemis was the youthful version of the moon, the young, the young one. And in uh my uh orc of the celestial deity, actually I use her as my cover uh of the box. Oh wow, there you go. Yeah, yeah. I'm so glad that you asked about her because she is actually one of my favorite deities in Greek myth. Um, Artemis was a fiercely independent hunt truth. Uh, even though um in the design, right, you can see she's a very beautiful woman. Uh but if you look at the ancient statues of Artemis, she actually had very short hair. Um, again, she also looked like a tomboy. And it's funny that we talked about Atlanta earlier. So the reason why Atlanta was like that was because Atlanta uh was protected by Artemis, and Artemis was her protectress. And in some version of the myth, Atlanta was raised by Artemis uh um directly. Uh, there are different versions of the myth. So Atlanta was a little bit like a human version of Artemis, and Artemis with the with a higher octave of um of Atlanta. Um apart from the traditional astrological interpretation of the moon, which is about your intuition, uh, your emotion, your your subconscious rim, your feelings, uh, which is also related to the terrorism archetype of the high priestess, um Artemis is all about your goal because she's an archer and she has a target, she knows where to shoot her arrow, and that's what her she's really good at doing in myth. Usually, when Artemis shows up in the reading as a general energy guiding our clients, this is telling you to fix your eyes on your prey. Uh usually when Artemis has her eyes on the prey, she does not miss it and she will get it done. So, this usually shows someone who's very determined, someone who has a very clear mind about I want this and I will go get this. And Artemis usually tells them to keep embracing this very strong uh energy within them.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

So so why do you feel that that you chose her for your cover then? Is that is that a reflection of how you how focused you are on getting where you want to go, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Well, yeah, well, because as you can imagine, yeah, being born in a very traditional Chinese family, choosing a spiritual path was the least that everybody in my family wants. Uh, nobody wanted that, and I had to be very unwavering about that for many, many years in order to get the not even, you know, yes, do it, but okay, just don't, you know, do what you whatever you need to do, and uh mom and dad are happy for you, but you know that's still we still prefer you being a banker at JP Morgan. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

I get it. I understand it it must have been quite challenging to be able to, you know, come out of the spiritual closet, as it were, um, with a you know traditional family. And so yeah, I can understand why you've you you've kind of associated uh you know the that energy into you into you. I uh I have a different reason for for for going to Artemis. It was more of a soul memory, and it was it was actually attached to Urimulus, who I was talking to you about earlier, the twin of Atlas. Um and uh in this uh memory I had, I was Urimulus and I I traveled to the Temple of Artemis and I buried gold underneath the temple of Artemis. And so when I went there, I was on a cruise actually, and um we we got off and we were in Kutadati and we took a yeah and we went there and it was amazing because I asked the guide that was with us, the tour guide, um, you know, if if there was gold, you know, that was that was uh buried at Artemis. And he said, well, actually, yeah, because it was a bank, you know, it was it was actually a banking place where people would like I don't know, bank whatever, probably gold. So yeah, it just gave me a little confirmation. Um it was like a um like almost like a hero's journey I I took myself, and it was I felt I felt activated like after I'd been there. I felt like it had some something had shifted within me. So it's nice to know the you know the story of Artemis and on on who she who she truly was. And interesting, she was the protector of Atlanta as well. So was Atlanta then deemed to have been um like somebody who wasn't empowered enough to look after herself?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Oh, that's a great question. Well, Atlanta was actually abandoned when she was born, she uh, and not through her own fault because her father simply wanted a boy. She was born, she was a girl, her father said, I don't want this, uh threw her away. So she was even as a baby, she was just you know abandoned in the in the wood. And uh um and Artemis found her and kind of like embraced her, right? And in some version of the myth, they said it's uh the wild bears found her, and but it was still under uh Artemis' instruction. Now the bears actually, you know, erased her and things like that. So Atlanta has a very interesting psychology because she was abandoned, and um, but later she uh she had this very interesting psychology because she felt she she felt love was never unconditional because she always felt that even my father abandoned me, right? Why would someone love me unconditionally anyway? So she had this very interesting psychology that she she felt she had to prove it. So, in order for people to love her, she felt I had to do something so that people will acknowledge me and then they will love me. And in including in, you know, at the end, you know, when she became a really famous huntress um in Greece, and her father came back to her and said, you know, I'm sorry that I abandoned you, you know, hope you can forgive me, right? You know, can we just reconcile? And she was initially very happy when the father said, you know, okay, but I only have one condition. Like, can you please just marry a guy so that I can have a son-in-law? I need a son. But even when her father said that, Atlanta accepted it because she felt, you know, why would my father love me unconditionally anyway? So if there's a condition, then I will say yes. So you know, the the this archetype of Atlanta is also very tragic because she was fierce on the surface. You know, I can do everything on my own, you know, I got this, I'm the fierce countries, right? I follow artists, I don't need a man, but deep down she really desired a love. Uh, and that's why when her father forced her to marry a guy, she said, yes. She didn't walk away because deep down she still wanted love from her father. And whenever I see a client putting the card of Atlanta from this deck orc of the mythic heroes, I will share this story with them. And some you more often than not, they will say, actually, you know, I had a very difficult time growing up with my father or with my mother or something similar to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Yeah, like almost like the the they didn't want the the girl, they wanted to have a boy, and that she then feels like she has to become a surrogate boy.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

Thank you. Yeah, exactly. She had to be someone else to wing their love, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

Yeah, that's so sad because that can really mess someone up. I know I've had a few clients that you know have really struggled, you know, with uh self-worth because of that, and uh, you know, can can turn to addictions and all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

Yeah, and our parents are sorry, also because sorry, I'm I just wanted to say, and also it's this kind of situation, usually it's because the parents are also victims themselves.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

They never really received unconditional love from their parents, and that's why when they have children, they don't know they they're not aware of the importance of giving the unconditional love, and they just think that you know I grew up this way anyway. Right. So what's special about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

Yeah, I get it. You know, it what I'm starting to understand through having this conversation with you, Latao, is that these there's such deep uh embedded meaning within each and every single one of the cards that you know that that sort of reflects back uh you know a specific um journey that a soul journey that somebody may have chosen to take on their soul contract um to learn and to grow and to evolve.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

So, you know, your new deck, uh Legends, Heroes, and Villains Oracle, uh this one launches in May, doesn't it? So what inspired this deck's creation in the first place, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

So, like what I uh mentioned at the beginning of our uh conversation, I really wanted to make the uh mythical figures more relatable.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:55

Um, because you know the those Greek mythology is 2000, 3000, 4000 years ago. But um Legends, Heroes, and Villain's Oracle features a lot of the um the people in the more recent history. Uh so for example, on the cover of the deck, I don't know if you can see it clearly. Um Florence Nightingale. Uh this one you mean? Uh close, but not. This is Irina Sandler. Ah, yeah. And uh uh, and we have got Eva Eva Peron.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

And we have got uh this one on the top. Yeah, I really wanted to see this.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Yeah, the Lady of the Lamp.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

Yeah, this is uh Harriet Tapman. Oh, right, okay. Yeah, who liberated you know the um African American slaves, right, during the uh the uh the uh the the domestic war in the US.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

So so these figures actually, you know, when we're children, we study their stories in history class. And so I realized that those figures are more relatable to us. And when we are bringing these stories, not just in our history. Class away, we have to learn it because we have an exam to take. But actually, we bring this to our the RD psychology and our spiritual studies. We realize that there's a lot more to see from their life story. So you can see the back. So we got Malala. Oh yeah. Yeah, we got uh Marie Curie and the last Emperor Puyi. Uh this is uh from the Chinese history, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

So that's really good. I love the fact that you're bringing you know the more recent uh heroes into back into the you know human psyche. That's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

So who knows, you know, after two 2000 years later, maybe we our descendants think they were actually myths. Maybe people started to think is if you know Harriet Tapman actually existed, you know, you never know, right? So they are myths their own way, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. So, how can how can someone use this deck then as a tool or reflective guide for decision making or spiritual growth? Do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

So, uh in the guidebook, I think in the uh the second chapter, I uh gave some uh a very good spread, right? I taught some very good spread that we can uh do uh when we use this uh deck of cards, but I would say if you are a uh beginner of Oracle decks, you know, some of our audience maybe they have never used Oracle cards before, always start with a one card pool as a daily guidance. Yeah. I believe that that's also you you you you would agree with that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah, because otherwise it gets too complicated. And just play with them, get to know each card, you know, because over a period of time the cards kind of awaken themselves and you start getting more information from them. So it's you know, because it can feel quite overwhelming because you've got such obviously a vast depth of um, you know, sort of knowledge on all of these different archetypes because you've been studying it for so long. But for anybody who's new, you know, who gets a deck, they they don't have that wisdom initially. And obviously, there's a write-up on each card, but you know, for you to fully embody that and really get to that deep understanding of, you know, for example, with Atlanta um representing the the disempowered lady who feels unwanted by her father, you know, it takes a bit of time, doesn't it, to to sort of fully anchor and integrate that wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

So so the more we read those stories, right, especially with the guidebook, I think the guidebook of the Oracle deck is so important. And it's just my personal opinion, I usually don't like any type of um card decks that have uh just one piece of paper as to as the explanation. I don't like that. Um I I want the guidebook to have some really deep content in it, right? And we can read it again and again and again. Every time we read, we get a a new we discover a new layer of meaning heavy behind on the connotation. And so um, and this is the reason why actually when I created this deck, right? The first deck, Oracle of the Mythic Heroes, actually the guidebook is 256 pages. And uh, but the initial writing was actually 30 more than this. And my publisher literally had a meeting with me and said, Latau, we need to cut this short. You are not writing a book, you are writing the guidebook for Oracle deck. You you gotta control this and so uh, but that's really my my point is that the the guidebook of the Oracle deck, definitely read it, yeah, and it will really help you to get accustomed to the energy of the deck.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

Yeah, that's great. That's great. I mean, my the book that I wrote in to accompany my deck as well is 211 pages long, so it is quite a detailed book, and a lot of people I think you know zone out and they're a bit like, oh my god, there's just too much information in there. But I figure that you know they can always, you know, it's better to have more than not have enough. But I'm self-published, I haven't I don't have a publisher for my book or my uh my card. So you know it's sort of I haven't I haven't had to go through that editing process.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

You you live in Australia, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

Yeah, I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

Have you thought about um um you know uh working with uh rock pool? I have never even heard of them before. So rockpool is actually the biggest Oracle and tarot cards publisher in in Australia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can actually search their name. I know a lot of authors who actually Australian author, they they try to work with Rockpool, yeah. If you are Oracle DAG or tarot cards creator, that's the publisher you go to. Oh, really? Okay, oh interesting. R-O-C-K-P-D O-O-L, Rockpool, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

Rockpool. Oh, I'll check them out. Yeah, I might uh I might do that. I'm I'm a bit nervous about you sort of getting, you know, sort of published and stuff. I don't know why. Um, but you know, who knows in the future. So um, what do you think then is the most common misunderstanding about studying history from a spiritual perspective? Misunderstanding.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

Ooh. Well, I can only speak from my personal uh experience here. Well, especially because of my uh early childhood educational background, uh, we used to look at history from a very single-dimensional perspective. Uh something happened this way, and that and A means A, B means B means B. And the more we study history, the more we realize that actually history was written by people. And the people, everybody has an agenda when they write history. Uh and history would be different written by different people. When you write, read different books, and you realize okay, okay, some authors say this person is like this, but the same person is reflecting in a completely different way in a different book. So when we read history, I really feel like, especially from a spiritual perspective, when we're trying to gain some um spiritual guidance from uh history, always read different author things and find what resonates with you the most.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:02

That's really good advice, yeah. Because it that just reminds me of uh Alexander Sichin, you know, and his interpretation of the Sumerian clay tablets and how it was biased, you know. So a lot of the time there was a lot of misinformation in there. So I think it is such a valid point, you know, using your discernment whenever you are, you know, exploring these subjects and making an informed conclusion.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

100%. And there's nothing, there's no interpretation that is wrong, I feel. I mean, our experiences are just our experience, and so um uh yeah, and I would encourage everybody who uses Oracle decks, not just my Oracle deck or your Oracle deck, but any type of Oracle cards, um, let your imagination fly. And there's nothing wrong, you know, and you don't have to be so loyal to the guidebook anyway, because as the author, we create the deck from our personal experience. But I would encourage all the users of our um Oracle decks to be free, right? And use your own interpretation and so that the cards will work the best with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

Beautiful. Oh, I love that. Well, look, that wraps up rather our incredible conversation together today. I've thoroughly enjoyed, you know, going through all of this with you. It's been fascinating for you know for my own, you know, self-awareness and development as well. Um where do people find you? You know, if they if they want to connect with you, what's the best way that they can contact you?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:34

Uh so on my official website is uh www.thehealingkingdom.com. Uh, I also have a very active Instagram account where I uh upload daily content, uh astrology, um, and the tarot um uh uh advice and reading, quick readings. Uh and my Instagram account is literally just my name, Latauan, L E T A O W A N G.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

Brilliant, brilliant. Well, I'm sure there'll be a lot of people reaching out to contact you and also, you know, hopefully uh to purchase your your decks of cards as well, which look absolutely fantastic. And, you know, you should give yourself a big pat on the back for doing something so unique and so meaningful as well, especially you know, at this point on the Earth timeline when a lot of people are craving hope, uh, you know, and uh and guidance from those other aspects of themselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:28

Yeah, so wonderful. I mean, thank you so much again, you know, for sharing your expertise and guiding us to see the past as a mirror uh for present growth and future alignment. So to all the listeners, thank you for joining us on Cosmic Conversations. Don't forget to subscribe, to like, and to follow, and to share this video with people you love in your life, who you feel would benefit from uh Latao's wisdom. And until next time, keep looking up to the stars and keep learning from the stories that shape our world. Bye for now.